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Professor David Epstein remains on the faculty of the esteemed Columbia University despite having pled guilty to misdemenor charges of incest in connection with the sexual relationship he had been engaging in with his daughter. That’s correct. Don’t believe for a second that incest is confined to white trash living in rural West Virginia. It’s now de rigeur among educated academics living in New York City as well.

Columbia University: Incest is best, put your DAUGHTER to the test. There's some really sick shit going on there, but who am I to judge? Let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

Earlier charges of felony incest were dropped in a plea deal. Don’t ask me what the difference is between felony incest and misdemenor incest because I’ve never passed the New York State Bar Exam. It seems to me that he was either shtooping his daughter or he wasn’t. I don’t understand the distinction.

My intial reaction was revulsion, of course. I mean, that’s just gross. But then I found out that he was once a columnist for the Huffington Post, which I read religiously. I immediately sought out his columns. I liked the column he wrote about torture because I’m against it like he is, though I sorta like the naked pyramids they had at Abu Ghraib. He also hates Sarah Palin, though not quite as much as I do. From everything I can gather, he’s a liberal. I didn’t find anything in his archive about LGBTQXYZ issues (to his shame) but I’ll just assume that he’s on board. He  seems like a level-headed guy, not a bigot.

But as I was crusing around the ‘net, reading about Epstein’s incestual relationship, I stumbled upon a blog comment that really spun my head around. It appeared on the website of Columbia’s campus newspaper, under the heading “Full Marriage Equality”:

“Consenting adults should be able to pursue love, sex, and marriage (or not) with any other adults. Either we take ‘consenting adults”’and ‘right to privacy’ and ‘my body, my choice’ seriously, or we don’t. A woman of age 18 can sue or be sued, go to prison for life, serve in the military, operate motor vehicles and heavy machinery, consent to sex with men or women they just met. Are we to say they can’t consent to sex with a close relative?”

Read it here: http://spectrum.columbiaspectator.com/spectrum/epstein-pleads-guilty-to-misdemeanor-charge-of-attempted-incest

David Epstein, Columbia professor and HuffPo columnist. He's definitely "keepin' it in the family" if you know what I mean.

I can see the logic there. Speaking from the point-of-view of someone who knows what it’s like to be shunned and hated because of my sexuality, I can hardly condemn the good professor for his forbidden love. My love was once unspeakable as well. I was forced to hide it as if it was something shameful. All through my teenage years, I prayed to God to take away my sexual desires, but nothing changed. I’m sure David Epstein prayed to his god(ess)(es) as well, asking them to please remove the burning sexual desire he felt for his daughter. But we can’t change the way we feel. You can’t “pray away the inbreeder” any more than you can “pray away the gay”.

What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is their own business. In fact, what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom deserves the full governmental seal of approval that only full marriage rights provide. Anything less is a denial of human rights.

Now I know that some of you may be thinking to yourself–“But Patrick, incest leads to screwed up, inbred, three-eyed children with hemophelia and crap like that.”

Here are a few of my feelings on that.

1) A marriage license is not a license to make a baby. People can (and do) conceive children out of wedlock. Four out of ten American children are now born to unwed mothers. If two people want to make a baby, they will, with or without a license from the state. It kind of reminds me of these people who think gay people will stop being gay if the state won’t allow them to marry. Sheesh. Almost medieval thinking.

2) Obviously, Professor Epstein and his daughter do not “choose” to be incestual. There’s just no way that it can be a “choice”. Who would choose a sexuality that is so reviled and rejected by society at large? For any of you judgemental people who think that Epstein “chooses” to be incestual, let me pose a question: When did you choose to outcestual? Hmm? It must be an inborn trait. Even though no gene has ever been discovered that determines incestual behavior,  we’ll just go ahead and assume that one exists.  We’ll call that science. And if you don’t believe in science, you’re basically a Christofascist loser.  Now, you might argue that people choose who they sleep with, and that would be true. Except then I would have to admit that I choose who I sleep with, and then that would mean that my sexual behaviors are actually behaviors. And that would make it virtually impossible to make perpetual comparisons between myself and black people. So let’s not got there, m’kay?

3) Incest has been around since the beginning of time. And that means it’s okay.

4) If the only reason we don’t accept Epstein’s relationship with his own daughter is because he runs the risk of impregnanting the poor thing, guess what? He didn’t. No harm no foul. I mean, what if Epstein were banging his 24-year old son, rather than his 24-year old daughter? That’s be cool, right? And what if he and his daughter engaged in oral sex only? What if Epstein wanted to do the horizontal limbada with his own (presumably menopausal) mother? That would be kosher. Not only would it be kosher, but we should grant him a marriage license. It’s only fair.

5) Actually, my state DOES allow incestual marriages. We’re very progressive here in the Bay State, far ahead of the rest of the nation. My state allows incestual marriages so long as they are HOMOSEXUAL in nature. Thank goodness. So if I weren’t already married to Michael, I could conceivably marry my dad. Or my brother. And the more I think about it, the more I’d really like to marry my brother. He’s a charmer. Now, from time to time, I’ve been on gay blogs and mentioned that two brothers can marry each other in my state and I’ve been accused of “lying”. So, if you don’t believe me, here is the statute, or you can simply google “Massachusetts legal impediments to marriage”:


The law is very clear. Women may not marry close male relatives and men may not marry close female relatives. It doesn’t even make a common sense exception for men who want to marry their post-menopausal mothers! But it doesn’t say anything about men marrying close male relatives, or women marrying close female relatives. So me and my brother could tie the knot. If I weren’t already married to my loving husband Michael, that is. So if gays can marry incestually, why not straights? If your answer is because straights can make babies and gays can’t, then you’re of course positing that baby-making capabilities should have some bearing on marriage, which is just LUDICROUS! Marriage is about love. The state should bless all love equally, H8ER!

6) For you Bible-thumping theocrats out there, please don’t bring your morals to this argument. We have a strict seperation of church and state in this country. It’s right there in the Consitution…somewhere. Look, I can’t find it right now. I’ll look for it again later. In any case, I’d bet you can’t find a single instance of Jesus condemning incest in the Bible. Go ahead and look, I dare you. Those are the words in red, douchebags. See? He never said it, so that means it’s okay. Also, if you’re such a staunch believer in the Bible, maybe you ought to go out and thrash yourself for eating a shrimp cocktail. Until then, STFU.

7) How many more incestual people does God have to make before you get it through your thick skulls that God wants them around? Obviously, if incest were wrong, God wouldn’t have created people who have an inclination to do it.

So, the more I think about it, the more I think Epstein is a trailblazer for equal rights. He and his daughter are SICK, but that shouldn’t mean that they enjoy anything less than equal rights. It’s not the government’s place to decide what’s sick. That would be a slippery slope–next thing you know, they’d be telling me that I’m sick.

Perverts like us have to stand shoulder to shoulder with perverts like them. Let’s not allow the churchy haters to divide us. It’s not of our business if David Epstein wants to give his daughter the business. She’s cool with it, why shouldn’t we be?

Comments on: "Straight people are pretty gross…but I won’t judge" (19)

  1. Michael Fitzpatrick said:

    Patrick: You aren’t seriously thinking about leaving me for your brother, are you?

    • No, no. I was just using that as an example. I see no reason to leave you for him when I could just as easily invite him over and we could all have a 3-way. But you understand my point. Massachusetts blesses incestual unions just so long as its incestual sodomy, not incestual coitus.

      • Michael Fitzpatrick said:

        “Massachusetts blesses incestual unions just so long as its incestual sodomy, not incestual coitus.”

        That’s an unjust situation. We should do something about that. What if Epstein’s daughter were an illegal immigrant who was going to be deported? Shouldn’t he be able to marry her? This is really distressing.

  2. Mr. Enemabag Jones said:

    Wow, comparing equal marriage among consenting gay adults to incest. Clever. You stay up all night coming up with that? Maybe you just overhead it on Red Eye?

    By the way, act like a fucking man and post comments without moderating them.

    Like when I post your identity, address, contact info and place of work, (if you actually have a job,) on my blog, I won’t moderate comments at all.

    • Thanks for being the first foul-mouthed commentor on my blog.

      By the way, the incestual couple in question are also consenting adults. I don’t know what the confusion is. That’s kind of my point. And as much as I find their behavior gross, their grossness is no reason to deprive them of the civil right known as marriage. I can marry my own brother in this state, so I don’t see why Professor Epstein can’t marry his daughter.

      If you’d like my name, address, and place of work, why didn’t you just ask? By the way, my husband will be out later on this week. My name is Patrick Fitzmichael. I live on Commercial Street in Provincetown, Massachusetts. Oh, and are you trying to find out my place of employment so that you can get me fired? That kind of reminds me of one of my favorite organizations. It’s called knowthyneighbor.org. It’s a voter intimidation outfit. I used to harrass the shit out of senior citizens on my street who actually wanted to settle this marriage equality thing in a democratic manner. But I’m sure you’d like to post all of my personal info on your site because you care about my well-being. Not because you want people to threaten me at my residence.

      • Mr. Enemabag Jones said:

        Your point is taking a quote by a heterosexual who supported full marriage equality for gay people, and then using that quote, and that man’s sexual activity with his daughter, as a basis to equate legitimate relationships between consenting gay adults, with incest, which the great majority of people–gay and straight–believe fully is wrong. It’s an argument oft used by anti-gay people, and is patently absurd.

        A person in a position of authority, or power of another person, as in the case of this man and his daughter, is wrong. To compare gay relationships with that demonstrates where your mind and opinion is regarding marriage equality for gay people.

        There is nothing “gross” about gay couples wanting to marry. As far as you marrying your brother, perhaps you’ve explained yourself better on all those gay sites you’ve claimed to have commented on, but I don’t really see the correlation between your state forgetting to prohibit same-sex incestuous marriage, and your state granting marriage equality to gay people.

        Providing your name and address would be wonderful. However I doubt it would be of any use, since you wouldn’t provide the correct information. So I’ll find it myself. And yes, I will track down your place of employment to get you fired. Since you’ve chosen to lace your posts with anti-gay bias, you should not feel slighted if I point out to your co-workers that they’re in the company of a bigot. And I agree, knowthyneighbor.org is a fantastic outfit! They’ve done some good work over the years.

        As far as “settling” the marriage debate democratically, the equality, and rights of Americans should not be used as a voting wedge issue, especially when a certain segment is routinely harassed and vilified by anti-gay Americans, who use the the pulpit, TV, and the Republican party to threaten and marginalize gay Americans. There is nothing democratic about disenfranchising and entire segment of the population.

        As far as the foul language, I’m shocked that you’re surprised by that, considering you’ve laced your posts with anti-gay language. I’m surprised you were able to let go of your pearls long enough to post a reply.

      • Mr. Enemabag Jones said:

        By the way, regarding point #2 in your harangue; gay people can choose who we sleep with, but we didn’t choose the gender we’re attracted to. You’ve fallen into the same trap that every other anti-gay bigot has fallen into–you’ve replaced sexual orientation, with sexual activity. To anti-gay bigots we’re gay because we sleep with people of the same sex, not because we’re attracted to same gender.

        Black people were born black, and gay people were born gay. Nobody has found a rainbow gene yet, but mounting evidence shows that sexuality is inborn–gay and straight.

        Anti-gay bigots, however, are made. And your parents should get the Betty Crocker blue ribbon for turning you out with a crispy top, and ooey, gooey hate filled center.

  3. Patrick Fitzmichael said:

    Look, Mr. Jones. You are using all the same arguments that anti-gay bigots use to deny the full measure of equality to gays. Incest is WRONG? It’s wrong because “the great majority of people–gay and straight–believe fully is wrong.” Hmmm…did you know that when California first legalized interracial marriage, something like 80% of the public thought it was wrong? Did you know that a majority of Americans did not approve of interracial marriage until 1992? So, presumably by your logic, the “wrongness” of incest should preclude inbreeders from getting married, just the same way it has precluded gays from getting married in the past.

    Please. We don’t have an established church in this country, thank goodness. Your morals are your own. Please don’t try to make others live by them. If you oppose incestual marriage, then don’t marry your brother. Okay?

    I’m outcestual just like you are. But I’m also an incestual ally. You, on the other hand, are a HATER!

    “As far as ‘settling’ the marriage debate democratically, the equality, and rights of Americans should not be used as a voting wedge issue, especially when a certain segment is routinely harassed and vilified by anti-gay Americans, who use the the pulpit, TV, and the Republican party to threaten and marginalize gay Americans.”

    And it is a tradgedy that we gays are treated this way by bigots. But the harrassment and vilification of inbreeders is far worse, wouldn’t you agree? Your very post confirms that. And that is why the outcestual majority should never be allowed to vote on the rights of the incestual majority.

    I really like your approach with anti-gay bigots. FIRE THEM ALL FROM THEIR JOBS! Intimidate them! Hound them! Destory them! That’s how we will acheive tolerance!

    • Mr. Enemabag Jones said:

      I have to give you credit for staying in character. Either you’re a good actor, or certifiable.

      Incest is wrong because it takes place between two people who are not equal–one person invariable has power, and authority over the other person. Gay marriage is not comparable, because it involves a relationship between two equals, with neither wielding power over the other.

      What interracial marriage has to so with this, I have no idea. Apparently you’re comparing incest to interracial marriage now. I’m sure there are many black Americans that would like to question that opinion.

      I appreciate that you’re trying desperately to correlate anti-gay Americans opposing legal marriage between gay adults, with an absurd argument that defends incest, however even in jest, you haven’t made a logical point. You’re like Michale Richards screaming racial slurs incessantly. You’re loud, and have no point–humorous, or otherwise–to make.

      So I’ll write again, I just don’t get it.

      And thank you for your kind words regarding exposing anti-gay bigots. It’s something I’ve worked on near on 20 years, with great success. With the information provided by a few of the blogs you’ve posted on, I’ve been able to gather some decent information about you. It feels good to have my work appreciated.

      Sadly, when gay Americans were finally making some headway in leaving the closet, and being openly gay in society, the anti-gay bigots felt the need to attack us, Anita Bryant being a prime example. Perhaps if you all had just left us alone, things would be better for all parties. We didn’t begin this culture war, but we will fight it.

  4. Patrick Fitzmichael said:

    “Black people were born black, and gay people were born gay. Nobody has found a rainbow gene yet, but mounting evidence shows that sexuality is inborn–gay and straight.”

    I agree completely. And even though no gene has been found yet, I choose to believe anyway. The gay gene is kind of like my tooth fairy. People who don’t believe in the gay gene HATE SCIENCE!

    • Mr. Enemabag Jones said:

      Even though a gay gene has not been found, science has shown that sexual orientation is inborn. For example:

      Studies of identical and fraternal twins suggest that there is a genetic influence on sexual orientation. If being gay were strictly genetic, then in identical twins, there would be a 100% concordance rate for sexual orientation. But one study in 1995 found a 52% correlation for male identical twins and 22% for male fraternal twins. A study on females came up with similar results. If one identical twin was a lesbian, in 48% of cases, the other twin was also a lesbian. For fraternal twins, the concordance was 16%. (source Simon LeVay.)

      These studies show that people with the same genetic make up (identical twins) are more likely to share sexual orientation than those with different genetic make up (fraternal twins.) Genetics alone cannot cause sexual orientation, but they do play a part.

      That said, you don’t seem the type to allow facts to cloud your anti-gay judgment.

      • The Torch said:

        Mr Enema,

        Don’t you agree that America needs more gay men like, say, Ernst Röhm?


  5. Patrick Fitzmichael said:

    And finally, when did you choose to be outcestual? Huh? Tell me that, smartypants.

    If you want to discuss this more, I know a men’s room at the Greyhound station where we could meet. Just tap three times with your foot, and cough. M’kay?

    • Mr. Enemabag Jones said:

      I’m sure you know where all the best public toilets to meet are. Most anti-gay males tend to seek out the choicest cruising spots, which is why I avoid public toilets. Nothing I detest more than having to deal with a pathetic, anti-gay troll desperate to get his prostate polished.

      • The Torch said:

        Speaking of dirty old men: Have you seen Barney Frank lately? Um’gosh! One gerbil too many. Now that Anderson Cooper…wow! Would I like to fist him!

  6. Nah, this blog isn’t up my ally. Your arguments are more than a little absurd. Not even sure what you are trying to accomplish here. But gay marriage is in no way equal to incest. With incestuous relationships, most often one person is in a position of power over the other, whether the powerless person *thinks* (s)he is consenting or not. That in no way mirrors ANY relationship between two consenting adults.

  7. The Torch said:

    Mr Enemabag Jones? R us serious? And you wonder why straights find our inclinations so disgusting?

  8. Friend of Dorothy said:

    Hi Yall ! Do I needs to sign up to psot on this blog? I want to talk with Patrick.

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